Exclusive Interview with Well-Known Gentleman and Scholar
Trimming the Wicks is proud to present, Griffin Gooch
When I first read
’s writing, I had this unshakeable feeling: this is my long-lost twin!! We’re the same age, got married at the same time, and share the blessing and curse of a rapier wit.I gave him a call and found him to be a fount of perspicacity on everything from John Updike’s theory of celebrity to Substack’s emerging role in the media landscape. It was cultural insight cheek by jowl with theological nuance (and a winsome demeanor to boot), and I thought to myself, “We simply must publish a version of this.” And since it’s Christmas, I said, “OUTSIDE of the paywall!!”
All that to say, if you like humor, heart, or humanity—you’ll love this guy.
Without further ado:
Ben: So just to jump right into things, how would you describe yourself? I would hate to put words in your mouth or make you uncomfortable, but would “polymath” be a fair description?
Griffin: Please, please. Heavens, no. If you look at my résumé, all you’d find is “public intellectual” and “self-described thought leader” at best.
B: You published your first book at 22 (which has a perfect score on Amazon, I might add). That’s almost 23 years earlier than J.R.R. Tolkien managed to publish The Hobbit. Do you feel like you should be given an honorary membership in the Inklings?
G: Thing about the Inklings is that there wasn’t a looker in the bunch, so I’m not sure how I’d fit in, frankly. Also, a lot of pipes, you know? Far too many for my liking.
B: What’s your research process like for your articles? I’m just counting from the last one. It looks like nearly 13, no 14, unique footnotes.
G: A lot of fabricating, mainly. Like, imagination. If you have a source that’s real, more power to you. But I find the ones you make up on the spot more reliable, because of fact checking and all. The assumption that the reader wants solid, peer-reviewed info is likely the biggest reason your Substack is failing — not your Substack specifically, just the ones exactly like it.
B: Wow. I am writing that down right now and making a note to come back to it later. By the by, I saw a photo of your December reading plan. Is that some kind of joke? No human can read that many books in one month.
G: If you’ve read my stuff, you’ll know it’s majorly inspired by the work of the pastor — well, he’s really more of a poet — Mark Driscoll. Driscoll said he read a book a day, which is something he could accomplish because he was the greatest mind of his generation. So I decided to read more than that, so I could be better than him, and he was better than most people, so that places me pretty high, if the math checks out.
B: Obviously, your publication is growing steadily and is something of a “Substack success story.” How many writers do you have on staff now? I know you can’t be coming up with all of these ideas by yourself.
G: I’m not surprised you picked up on that! Since the launch of this Substack in July of ‘24, it’s grown to house dozens of hundreds of part time and full time writers, and today looms as one of the more powerful institutions in human history.
B: Which is most important to you: subscriber numbers, views, or the VIP access that Substack brings you?
G: I love the subscribers, but I love the craft most. Whenever I publish anything, I remind myself that it’s not about the likes or the views. It’s about giving glory to above. So even if it never gets a like — which would never happen of course — I still know it was all worth it. But still, VIP access is probably most important — over and above the subscribers and craft, or whatever I just said — because I want to be front row at Fyre Fest 2 so very badly, because I want to make acquaintance with Ja Rule.
B: Your profile picture makes you look so relatable which is ironic because when I read your prose, the one thing I think is, “I could never write something that good.”
G: Ha, yes. You’re right. I mean, if no one’s gonna say it, I will. Not everyone has that “it” factor as a writer. But to channel greatness, I always tell people to visualize how that jerk Landon’s crew from high school embarrassed you in Mr. Vanderbook’s P.E. class. Use that, the white hot rage. It is your vengeance, unto thine own strength.
B: I know you said when you were starting out that David Foster Wallace was an inspiration to you. How does it feel as the Padawan to become the Master?
G: It feels like a bandana slowly growing out of your skull.
B: And I believe you mentioned living in Michigan. Is it hard to be so creatively gifted in an area so devoid of culture?
G: Everyone always says that. And I usually just tell them it’s not bad being the biggest fish in the smallest pond.
B: What does it feel like to be a one name celebrity? Beyoncé. LeBron. Griffin.
G: You forgot Oprah, Cher, Tupac, and Drake. But yes, good company.
B: When was the first time you went in public and realized your life would never be the same?
G: Probably after the release of Good Will Hunting, a movie based on me.
B: They say once you’re famous you’ll never make a first impression again. What’s that been like for you?
G: John Updike said that “Celebrity is a mask that eats into the face.” But I think he was just going through something, and also I would never wear a John Updike mask because he’s not that recognizable. DFW called Updike a “Dick with a thesaurus.” I can never remember which dinosaur a thesaurus is (the long-necked ones or the pokey-backed ones?) and I don’t know what dinosaurs had to do with Updike, but DFW, like my writing staff, is usually right. What was the question?
B: I believe on our call, you mentioned marrying young. Do you think getting married before you became rich and famous has made your relationship more stable?
G: Oh absolutely. I couldn’t imagine getting married now, what with all the fame and exposure and all the stuff you were saying. You know that John Updike said “Celebrity is a mask that eats into the face,” right? Anyways, like the good book (i.e., the Bible) says, “It’s kind of weird to not get married younger, because, like, are you hiding some kind of gross secret?” or something apropos of that — I’m sure you know the reference.
B: Who do you think is changing the culture more right now: you or Gavin Ortlund?
G: I love Gav, although our relationship has never been the same after I lost to him in a duel over a woman we were both courting. That’s the real, untold scoop on how he ended up with his current wife. He still invites me over for Easter brunch, and I make an effort to attend because I’d like to be the bigger person, but it almost feels spiteful the way he parades his family and children around — reminders of all the things that could’ve been — really should’ve been — mine. So by default, I have to say Gavin, because of the stuff with the lawyers.
B: If you could spend an hour talking on a park bench to anyone living or dead, who would you pick? Okay, hold on, you can’t pick Adam.
G: I can’t pick Adam Scott from Parks & Rec and Severance? Weird. Then I’d choose Shaboozey. Or the guy who Forrest Gump is based off of.
B: When you launched your Substack, in your wildest dreams, did you ever imagine this level of success?
G: Yes, of course.
B: I understand Elon Musk offered to pay you $1 million a year to be his writer-in-residence. Yet you value your independence too much, so you turned him down. What’s it like to have that kind of integrity?
G: It wasn’t so much an integrity move as much as annoyance in the way he kept double texting me about it.
B: They say that in Protestantism, “Every man is his own pope.” How does it feel to be the de facto pope of the entire Protestant church?
G: I’m just thankful it’s not
.B: Aristotle once said, “It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims.” Would you say you’re the exception that proves the rule?
G: First off, I didn’t know Maxim magazine was around back in the 1800’s. Second, as I’m sure you’re probably aware, time is just a social construct (which means it’s not real). So, am I really young? Who’s to say? This is just a taster of more mind twisters you’ll find on my Substack.
B: Does your wife find you intimidating still or has she made peace with her lot as a genius’s wife?
G: Eleanor Roosevelt once said something to the effect of “Behind every great man is an even greater wife.” I’m far more complementarian, so I’d just say, “Behind every great man is a wife.”
B: Would you say that your biggest flaw as a writer is being too relatable or is it being too skilled at weaving together seemingly disparate subjects?
G: My biggest flaw as a writer is not giving the reader enough time to stop saying “Whoa, I’ve never thought of it that way!” and just breathe and think about what they’ve read before dropping more straight banger hits, as the kids call them.
B: You’re 27, and you’ve already conquered Substack. What’s next? A podcast?
G: I know you’re a fan, but conquered is a bit much. Mastered, possibly perfected, is more realistic. And what’s next? Podcast? Sure. But what I really want to do is play the next Spiderman; after Tobey Maguire is done, of course.
B: One thing a lot of young people complain about is how screens are affecting their attention, their reading comprehension. I assume you’re one of the 2.5% of the population that are “Supertaskers,” able to multitask without trouble.
G: You know, a wise man once said “Celebrity is a mask that eats into the face.”
B: Where did you go to school? I imagine you had your pick of the litter.
G: They actually formed a new one for me, called Harvford. I’ll let you guess which two schools joined forces.
B: Okay, lightning round:
Who would win in a wrestling match: George Whitefield or Jonathan Edwards?
G: I don’t really follow MMA (men’s marital arts), so I’ll have to pass on this one! I’m getting my Ph.D. in Theology currently, so something involving theologians would be helpful :)
B: Yes or no: Is Tim Keller the GOAT?
G: Look, look. Keller clearly did a fine job, but we all know his shortcomings — hair, obviously being one — but both he and the general public are all well aware it’s time he passed on the proverbial torch. And well, I don’t see anyone else stepping up, so.
B: If you had to listen to one Hillsong for the rest of your life, what would it be?
G: One hill song? Or one Hillsong song? There’s a crucial difference; one has far less of an angle, while the other has had far more scandal docu series made about them.
B: You’re asked to give a five minute TED talk that is guaranteed to be seen by 10 million people. What is your topic?
G: Probably about how talent can’t be worked toward, it has to be born. Not everyone attended Mr. Vanderbook’s P.E. class. Real skill can’t be acquired through practice. Sort of like an anti-10,000 hour rule. Essentially, we live in a talent aristocracy. If you weren’t born to the correct lineage, you may as well resign to eternal mediocrity, because training won’t help. You know?
B: You’ll be 35 soon. Are you planning to run for president in 2032 or are you gonna hold off a little while longer?
G: Look obviously you’re not the first person to bring this up. I get it, I’m most people’s first choice. But is political office really the best move for my brand? These are the kind of questions that keep me up at night.
(Note: This interview was edited to make it comprehensible to mere mortals)
“But what’s Griffin really like?”
One thing I often get asked is, “But what’s Griffin really like?”
I always say that he’s just a genuine, down-to-earth dude. He’d be the first to tell you, “I’m one of the more humble people I know personally,” and I’d have to agree.
So what are you waiting for:
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And let’s start banking ballots for 2032!!!!!
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too many good references for the Millennial Protestant to take in.
as for marrying before fame and fortune, it worked out well for me to marry a funny guy from Twitter after the height of his fame.
Ha, thanks for the laughs! Absolutely splendid :)